TRANSCRIPT

Otto Horn Court Transcript Undated They had been removed again

Questions below were asked by OSI attorney Norman Moscowitz, answers were supplied by Treblinka SS officer Otto Horn. Otto Horn, under oath, is testifying as to how he first identified John Demjanjuk from photographs.

However, Horn's statement clashes with the reports of two individuals who had been present at that first photo-identification session � Bernard J. Dougherty and George W. Garand � indicating that Horn's testimony is perjured. As the questioner Norman Moscowitz was present at Horn's initial identification, and as he must have read the reports of Dougherty and Garand, then it is fair to conclude that he is suborning Horn's perjury. A fuller account of the relation between the Dougherty and Garand reports on the one hand and Horn testimony on the other can be found in the second of a series of three Ukrainian American Bar Association (UABA) articles.

Q     Would you describe, in your own words, how these photos were shown to you and what, if anything, happened when you looked at them?

A     First I was shown these larger pictures.

Q     Approximately how many of those were there?

A     Eight, I should say.

Q     And what happened when you were shown � what, if anything, happened when you were shown these pictures?

A     I was asked if I knew anybody among these, of these.

Q     And did you look at these photographs?

A     Yes.

Q     When you were looking at them, was anyone holding them?

A     No.

Q     Where were the photographs?

A     They were on my table in front of me.

Q     Who laid them out in front of you on your table?

A     A gentleman � a gentleman of them.

Q     At the time you had the photo, you were looking at the photographs, were you in control of them?

A     Yes.

Q     Did anyone suggest to you that you pick out a particular photograph in any way?

A     No.

Q     Did you in fact identify or recognize someone in those photographs?

A     Yes, this Iwan.

Q     Were you shown another set of photographs, aside from these which we've just discussed?

A     Yes.

Q     When you looked at those photographs � this other set � where was this first set of photographs?

A     They had been removed again.

Q     And at this time you were looking at this other set, you could not see this first set?

A     Right.

Q     Now this other set � this second set � approximately how many photographs were in that set?

A     Also about eight.

Q     And generally what were these pictures of?

A     They were a bit smaller.

Q     And what did they depict?

A     Again people.

Q     Now when you looked at these photographs, was anyone holding them?

A     No.

Q     Where were they when you were looking at them?

A     In front of me, on the table.

Q     And did you have complete control over them at that time?

A     Yes.

Q     Did � while you were looking at these photographs � did anyone suggest to you that you pick � that you identify or pick � a particular photograph?

A     No.

Q     In this group, did you recognize the photograph of any person?

A     Yes.

Q     And whose photograph was that?

A     Again the one I found out on the first set.

Q     And what is his name?

A     Iwan.

Q     This Iwan whose photograph you selected, is he the same Iwan you were talking about previously?

A     Yes.

Q     The Iwan who you stated was at the gas chamber?

A     Yes.

...

Q     At the time that you were looking at these photographs now in front of you, Government Exhibit 3, were you looking at the other set of photographs?

A     No.

Q     Were those photographs anywhere in your view?

A     No. They went back into an envelope and away.

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