June 25, 1999 |
This book consists of testimony taken by Ilya Ehrenburg and Vassily Grossman in those areas which were liberated within the Soviet Union � areas which were taken back during the counterattack of the Soviets, and when they came to certain camps and cities, they took testimony concerning what had happened there.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 533) |
Yes, but this book consists only of direct testimony; it is direct, accurate testimony of the same manner as the one you introduced to me earlier.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 534) |
I'll say it only briefly, because I am not an expert in their biographies, but from what I know Ilya Ehrenburg as a writer, a journalist, very well known. During the Second World War he published many articles which encouraged the Soviets in their fight against Nazi Germany and it should be noted that in most of these articles he also made mention of the Jewish point. Now as part of the Jewish anti-fascist council which operated in the Soviet Union during the Second World War he assumed responsibility together with Vasilli Grossman for drawing this book concerning the tragedy of Soviet Jewry under Nazi Germany and in the process of the liberation of Cracow, Kiev, and Smolensk, he and Grossman or someone else on their behalf made sure that testimony was taken concerning deeds of murder of the Germans and especially the Einsatzgruppen, as I noted in my remarks earlier, and this information was compiled in this book, The Black Book, a book which was not published in the Soviet Union, even though it was written, it pertains to the Soviet Union, but we won't go into that. Vasilli Grossman, of course was also a journalist and a writer. He was also a military correspondent during the Second World War. He is also known for his other books and together with Ehrenburg he wrote this book.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, pp. 548-549) |
At the moment I haven't looked through this book.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 549) |
I read this small book by Ehrenburg about ten years ago, I mean Grossman's book, that is, about ten years ago. I don't remember the details about any specific name that appears there.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 550) |
As I said earlier, this small book I read over ten years ago. I simply do not remember these details and I cannot answer.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 551) |
I don't remember.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 552) |
No, I don't remember any details from this small book. After 10 years and after having read dozens if not hundreds of other books, testimonies, documents on the subject.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 552) |
No, I don't remember the excerpt.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 554) |
But I don't remember.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 554) |
Yesterday when I was asked about this, I noted that the name Schmidt is something that I do remember. He was someone who was in charge of Ivan and Nicholai, but I remember it in order to make sure � I would have to look it up again.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 555) |
I'd have to re-read the passage. Because I'm not sure.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 555) |
I can answer as I said earlier, I don't remember what this book says.
(Yitzhak Arad, Morning Session, 19Feb87, p. 557) |
The wide door of the slaughterhouse opened slowly and two of the assistants of Schmidt, the chief of the death factory, appeared at the entrance. These were sadists and maniacs. One, about thirty years of age, was tall with massive shoulders, dark hair and a sallow-complexioned face beaming with excitement; the other, slightly younger, was short, brown-haired, with a pasty, jaundiced complexion, as if he had just taken quinacrine.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 414, emphasis added) |
Various means were employed to effect this mass slaughter. One of them was by forcing the exhaust fumes from the engine of a heavy tank that served as the Treblinka power station into the chambers.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 417) |
The second method, and one that was the most widely used, was pumping air out of the chambers with suction pumps until the victims were dead. As in the case of the first method, death was caused by depriving the victims of oxygen. The third method, used less but nevertheless used, was murder with steam. This method, too, aimed at depriving the organism of oxygen, for the steam was used to expel the air from the chambers. Diverse poisons, too, were employed, but this was experimentation; the first two were the methods used for mass murder on industrial scale. (Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 418) |
There were concrete ponds for domestic fowl, pools for washing laundry with steps leading conveniently down, various services for the German personnel � a modern bakery, barbershop, garage, a gasoline-filling station, warehouses. Built on approximately the same principle � with the gardens, the drinking fountains, the concrete paths � was the Lublin camp at Majdanek and dozens of other labor camps in East-Poland where the Gestapo and the SS intended to settle for a long time.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 400) |
The valuable articles were carried away to the warehouses, and the letters, photographs of newborn babies, brothers and brides, yellowed wedding announcements, all these precious bits of paper that had been treasured by their owners perhaps for years, were just so much trash for the Treblinka officials who collected them in a pile and carted them away to huge pits already partly filled with hundreds of thousands of similar letters, postcards, visiting cards, photographs, letters written in shaky childish handwriting and crude childish crayon drawings.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 409) |
Articles of clothing considered worthwhile sending to Germany were taken away at once to the warehouse. All metal and cloth labels were carefully removed. The rest of the clothing was burned or buried.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 411) |
The earth ejects the crushed bones, the teeth, bits of paper and clothing; it refuses to keep its awful secret. These things emerge from the unhealed wounds in the earth. There they are � the half-rotted shirts of the slain, the trousers, shoes, mouldy cigarette-cases, the tiny cog wheels of watches, penknives, shaving brushes, candlesticks, children's shoes with red pompons, towels with Ukrainian embroidery, lace underwear, scissors, thimbles, corsets, trusses. Out of another fissure in the earth emerge heaps of utensils: cups, pots, basins, tins, pans, aluminum mugs, bowls, children's bakelite cups. ... And beyond, out of the bottomless, swollen earth, as though pushed forward into the light of day by some invisible hand, emerge half-rotted Soviet passports, notebooks with Bulgarian writing, photographs of children from Warsaw and Vienna, letters written in childish scrawl, a volume of poetry, a prayer copied on a yellowed fragment of paper, food ration cards from Germany.... Hundreds of perfume bottles of all shapes and sizes, green, pink, blue....
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, pp. 428-429) |
We walk over the bottomless Treblinka earth and suddenly something causes us to halt in our tracks. It is the sight of a lock of hair gleaming like burnished copper, the soft lovely hair of a young girl trampled into the ground, and next to it a lock of light blonde hair, and farther on a thick dark braid gleaming against the light sand; and beyond that more and more. There are evidently the contents of one, but only one, of the sacks of hair the Germans had neglected to ship off.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 429) |
All the witnesses questioned confirmed that the sacks containing their hair had German addresses on them. What was it used for? According to the written testimony of one Kohn, the hair was used by the navy to fill mattresses, to make hausers for submarines and for other similar purposes. Other witnesses claim that the hair was used to pad saddles for the cavalry.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 411) |
The peasants carted the charred bones and ashes from the spring of 1943 until the summer of 1944. Every day twenty carts were out each making six or eight trips in the course of the day. In every load went 100-125 kilograms or more of ashes and charred bones.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 424) |
What was behind that massive six-meter wall covered thickly with yellowing pine branches and blankets? The blankets too inspired fear: they were quilted and made of colored silk or calico exactly like those packed in bedrolls of travellers. How had they got there? Who had brought them? And where were their owners? Why had they no further use for their blankets?
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 407) |
The latter [the doors to the outside] led to platforms running on both sides of the building. Narrow-gauge tracks led up to the platforms. The corpses were first emptied out on the platforms and then loaded into waggonettes to be carried to the huge burial pits the excavators dug day and night.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 417) |
Work went on day and night. People who took part in the cremation of the corpses say that the ovens resembled volcanoes; the frightful heat burned the faces of the workers, the flames leapt up to a height of eight to ten meters, clouds of thick black smoke reached the sky and hung in a heavy motionless blanket in the air. Inhabitants of villages in the neighborhood saw the flame at night from a distance of thirty and forty kilometers as it licked above the pine woods surrounding the camp. The stench of burning flesh poisoned the whole countryside. When the wind blew in the direction of the Polish camp three kilometers away, the people there were almost asphyxiated by the frightful odor. More than 800 prisoners (which is more than the number of workers in the blast-furnace or open-hearth departments of big iron and steel plants) were engaged in burning the corpses. The monster workshop operated day and night for eight months in succession without managing to handle the myriad of buried bodies.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 421) |
Railway workers and peasants secretly kept count of these trains. Kazimierz Skarzynski, a sixty-eight-year-old peasant from the village of Wulka (the inhabited point nearest to the camp), told me that on some days as many as six trains would pass along the Siedlce line alone and hardly a day passed throughout these thirteen months without at least one train coming in. [...] We are in possession of dozens of like statements.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 403) |
There were cases when prisoners who knew where they were being taken mutinied. A peasant by the name of Skarzynski saw people smash their way out of two trains, knock down the guards and run off into the forest. In both cases every one of the fugitives was killed. Four children between the ages of four and six were killed with them. Similar cases of skirmishes between the victims and the guards were described by a peasant woman named Marianna Kobus. Working in the fields one day she saw sixty people break away from a train and make for the forest.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 409) |
Inhabitants of the village of Wulka, the settlement nearest to Treblinka, say that sometimes the shrieks of the women being murdered were so terrible that the whole village would run for miles into the forest to get away from the piercing cries that rent the air. Presently the screaming would subside only to break out again as terrible and soul-searing as before.... This was repeated three or four times a day.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 415-416) |
Once a train arrived in Treblinka filled with English, Canadian, American, and Australian citizens who had been stranded in Europe and Poland when the war broke out. After lengthy negotiations involving the payment of huge bribes, they had succeeded in gaining permission to travel to neutral countries.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 405) |
Several trains brought young Polish peasants and workers who had taken part in uprisings and fought in partisan detachments.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 405) |
Himmler ordered all the buried corpses to be burned, every single one of them, and the ashes and residue to be carried out of the camp and strewn over the fields and roads. Inasmuch as there were already millions of corpses in the ground this seemed an incredibly difficult task.
(Vasily Grossman, Treblinka, in Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman (eds.), The Black Book, Holocaust Library, New York, published in Hebrew in 1980, published in English in 1981, p. 420) |